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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 15:38 
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All right guys there isn't such a thing like realism in the RE universe, BUT Chris is much more believable character than Leon :wink: ( after all that's why so many people like Leon)

BTW Leon is much more believable than Jill :lol: :razz: .....( just kidding and trying to piss off some Jilluminados members - and yeah I'm looking on you V :mrgreen: :rcg: )

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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 15:42 
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To be honest I'm not really arguing for or against either, I like both characters in all there incarnations (Except Leon and Barry in Gaiden). I just thing there's been some utterly stupid reasons given for Chris being 'more realistic'.

Anywho, I haven't actually given my thoughts on LiN yet so here goes:

I love it, plain and simple. I love the Mansion semi-replicated in glorious HD, I love the throwback to old puzzles, I love the lack of enemies and the fight with Wesker is fun as hell. Simples?


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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 16:08 
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Zementh wrote:
TheLastEscapist wrote:
You cant be serious. In UC laser room the lasers were in the same position from the begining to the end. In RE4 they positioned randomly


Wait... Seriously? That's your excuse? Positions of lasers aside, they are dodging LASERS.

FoxyAreku wrote:
I'm fully aware of that scene. :P

The Umbrella Chronicles room was at least halfway believable. No super backflips and running up walls like the flash. And like Escapist said, they moved in one way.

As for taking punishment from Wesker, I dunno. It's not like he ever shot them or anything (or at least, never hit them with a bullet).


They're nothing particularly super about Leons backflip, hell he doesn't even land it properly; Chris' is more super then that because of the fact he landed it. And running up the wall like that is very believable actually because they are people out there who can actually do it.

As as for punishment, getting punched hurts ok, in fact, punching people really hurts, especially if you're like Chris and aim for the face, it's why boxers wear gloves. The fact that Wesker AND Jill beat the ever living shit out of out intrepid heroes and they are perfectly fine really should be raising your eyebrow.


Well it's just a basic fight scene, and they show signs of fatigue in the cutscenes. Like when Jill was thrown up against the wall, she could barely move afterwards.

Can kinda see what you mean though. I still think Chris is a much better character though, he just has so much more going on with him, Leon is honestly pretty useless aside from his involvement with Ada.

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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 18:57 
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IkariWarriorKH wrote:
As I've stated, had you simply stated you preferred RE4 over RE5 or Mike segment over DE that'd be one thing. The problem arises in you stating DE is 'broken' and 'enemies randomly come out of no where' 'there's no pacing' etc. ALL of which are untrue. Your statements. You say I'm acting like theirs a 'winner' here and that it all comes down to opinion vs opinion. Yes, that is true, it's opinion vs opinion. However, you're the one miscontruing opinion as fact.

Just because it's your OPINION that the game is 'broken/enemies come randomly out of no where/there's no pacing' doesn't make it true when in fact it's not true. Facts outweigh opinions.

It can be your 'opinion' that the world is flat and you're entitled to it, but, if you go on to promote that the world is indeed flat and NOT round, you would be wrong and anyone who stated as much would be justified in doing so, since again Fact outweighs opinion. And if you're going to run around making false claims, you shouldn't be surprised when people step up to counter them.


In any event, as to your comment about 'people like foxy who hate RE4 but love RE5 despite them being practically the same. Makes no sense'.

Really? RE4 and RE5 are practically the same? Oh wait, you're referring 100% to gameplay aspects and implying that is all that matters in the enjoyment of a game. So by your logic, if two competing companies make first person shooters, if someone prefers one but hates the other it makes no sense right?

Could it be the fact RE4 has NO connection to RE in general outside of Leon and Ada that turned some people off from RE4? Could it be the villains were generic and better fit a hollywood movie like a DieHard sequel than an RE game?

The game literally opens with "Umbrella's dead. Moving on" then goes to show the president's daughter kidnapped. Leon, who last time we saw him had stated "Hey! It's up to us to take down Umbrella!" is now a generic US Agent sent to retrieve the president's daughter from a mundane terrorist who wishes to take control of the US government.

Then we have "Long time no see......for the first time ever, Comrade" with them attempting to create a Wesker/Chris rivalry for Leon with Krauser despite never properly building Krauser up to that level. They simply introduce the character and tell the audience "These two are now rivals on the level of Wesker/Chris. Accept it".

Finally, we have Leon who is COMPLETELY unrecognizable from his RE2 counterpart. A lot of people like RE4 Leon's character and think he's badass. But, that's the problem. He is NOTHING like his RE2 counterpart whatsoever. He seems like an entirely new character. And again, he's your generic hollywood action star who laughs in the face of danger and shows no emotion and can do anything and everything. He's not Leon.

The ONLY character to retain their character and even be recognizable to the RE series was Ada, that was it.

And you are confused as to why some people would completely dislike RE4 yet love RE5?

I love RE5 and while I don't 'hate' RE4, I am not fond of it. Gameplay wise RE4 is really fun. But, RE5's gameplay is the same and even better plus has actual connections to RE and 'feels' like RE to me. Thus I'd much rather play RE5 than RE4.

Again, just like my FPS example. Just because it plays the same doesn't mean it 'feels' the same. Storyline, characters, settings, music, etc. all can lead to whether a game involves you or not. Just because two games play the same doesn't mean both are equally enjoyable.

One of the biggest things I like about RE is the storyline and the characters. RE4 threw both of those out of the window and traded them up for a more casual mainstream approach at storyline and characters. And it was off putting to many people. So there really is no reason to be confused or fabbergasted as to why some people would love RE5 but hate RE4.


And as usual you are misinterpreting what I said. I said it felt broken, it isn't broken like glitchy messed up games but pro mode offline does not feel like a mode that works correctly. I said the pacing is not good not that it has no pacing. Enemies feel like they come from nowhere, obviously they come from somewhere but they are not placed as well as RE4. You are the one viewing it as if I am presenting as facts, please read what I write and argue what I write not what you make up in your head.

As for liking one over the other, If story is your reason for liking a game I will not argue with that. To me it's about gameplay and RE5 has RE4 gameplay, so if you like one you should like another, it only makes sense. If you like Mega Man 1, you probably will like Mega Man 2. To go from one extreme like RE4 is the worst game in the series cause of the gameplay to RE5 is amazing when it has the same general gameplay, is what I don't get. But if the reason is story then that is why I didn't get it.


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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 21:44 
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Dark_Chris wrote:
BTW Leon is much more believable than Jill :lol: :razz: .....( just kidding and trying to piss off some Jilluminados members - and yeah I'm looking on you V :mrgreen: :rcg: )


Trying to bait me? :mikami: Shame shame shame. :razz:


I don't care. It's your opinion. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 18:36 
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Where did the discussion of Chris' personality come into play? What does that have to do with anything to counter what I mentioned about RE4 and Leon?

Chris in RE5 is the same as Chris in RE1 and Chris in CVX. He's always been the same. He's always been goal oriented mr. honorable who is 100% honest and justice driven and all that jazz. Whether you like that kind of character or not is besides the point.

The comments about Leon were that you had Leon in RE2 who was an ACTUAL character who had ACTUAL personality and emotion and in RE4 they STRIPPED him of every ounce of that in favor of turning him into a generic Hollywood action star who laughs in the face of danger, can do 'anything', and has the 'i'm too cool for school' attitude all throughout to present him as your generic Badass.

He lacks even the simplest of basic emotions and believability in his character. Chris may whine or may be boring to many. But, at least he's human. He shows clear emotions whether you like those emotions or not. He doesn't simply walk around seeing a huge monster pop out followed by him scoffing at it and making a snarky comment. Nor does he face death in the face and simply grin and make another snarky comment. Nor does he walk around pretending to be all badass and awesome and capable of doing anything without the slightest of concerns.

Many people like Re4 Leon because many people typically like the 'badass' character. That doesn't change the fact that RE4 Leon is COMPLETELY unrecognizable from RE2 Leon so much so that they are NOT the same character. Anyone who liked RE2 Leon's character greatly would feel alienated by RE4 Leon's character. Sure, they might enjoy Leon in RE4 as a 'character' but not as 'Leon'.

Degeneration Leon is even worse because there he's devoid of any emotion at all. He's completely 100% monotone in everything he does there.

As far as Jill and Wesker 'beating the living shit' out of Chris and Sheva.

Watch the cut scene again. Jill backflips off of Chris and sends him to the floor, roundhouses Sheva's gun then kicks her in the chest. Jill twists Chris' arm then Wesker does a elbow dash into Sheva.

After that in the next scene, Jill kicks Sheva back once again followed by twisting Chris' arm again and putting him to the floor.

That's really about it. That's hardly 'kicking the living shit out of them'.

Both Chris and Sheva show clear signs of being winded and in pain. Sheva for example in the second scene is shown sitting in the corner for quite some time while Chris is in pain with his arm being twisted. You don't see Sheva just getting right back up and rushing to backhand Jill do you?

Add in Chris is a big guy so he can obviously take more punnishment than Sheva can, as well as add in the factor of 'Adrenaline' and Chris just finding out about Wesker and Jill, plus the fact that their lives are on the line and Wesker and Jill are trying to kill them and yeah, it makes the scene very believable.

The same thing happens in the following Wesker battle scenes. Wesker smacks Sheva back and she's shown clearly crouching on the floor catching her breathe as Wesker flips back to her and grabs her and holds her hostage. When Chris and Sheva are thrown over the bannister, they're clearly shown winded as they slowly get up.

After the long QTE cutscene on the jet, Chris is shown clearly hurting and holding his side even when you're at full health as soon as the volcano section begins.

So in the end, it's a game, it's obviously going to get away with a lot. But, the game definately does go out of it's way to show that Chris and Sheva definately are hurting and taking pain, so not exactly sure where that argument is coming from.

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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 19:06 
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IkariWarriorKH wrote:
Not exactly sure where that argument is coming from.


The point of my argument was that there's no point in arguing over who's more realistic when clearly we're being shown the characters being put through unrealistic things like being in fights that should of injured them greatly but instead they recover and carry on.

Like my laser dodging point, Chris' might have been more 'realistic' because the 'laser when in the same position' the point is both Leon and Chris backflip on frickin' laser beams. Arguing that a character is worse because of points like these is just stupid.


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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 21:56 
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He lacks even the simplest of basic emotions and believability in his character. Chris may whine or may be boring to many. But, at least he's human. He shows clear emotions whether you like those emotions or not. He doesn't simply walk around seeing a huge monster pop out followed by him scoffing at it and making a snarky comment. Nor does he face death in the face and simply grin and make another snarky comment. Nor does he walk around pretending to be all badass and awesome and capable of doing anything without the slightest of concerns


So whats better, a boring , somewhat whiny, one track mind character who hasn't changed since the beginning or a snide, cocky, show off who laughs at the dangers he is facing?

Well...i go with Leon, but im not sure either is terrific really.

The one thing Ill say about Leon though is that you could make the presumption of opinion that his dealings with the government, and all the agenda's, horror, and evil he has faced has maybe dealt his personality to be both jaded, as well as almost suicidal , in that he might know he is living on borrowed time, and is simply doing his duty now until he meets his demise.

Thats just my take, but i mean we have no real character development at all in either chris or Leon, but i would take the lol moments and the jaded Leon over one track mind chris anyday.

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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 22:27 
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Biohazard151 wrote:
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He lacks even the simplest of basic emotions and believability in his character. Chris may whine or may be boring to many. But, at least he's human. He shows clear emotions whether you like those emotions or not. He doesn't simply walk around seeing a huge monster pop out followed by him scoffing at it and making a snarky comment. Nor does he face death in the face and simply grin and make another snarky comment. Nor does he walk around pretending to be all badass and awesome and capable of doing anything without the slightest of concerns


So whats better, a boring , somewhat whiny, one track mind character who hasn't changed since the beginning or a snide, cocky, show off who laughs at the dangers he is facing?



You forgot to put that the whiny, boring and one track mind character does behave more or less like a human over the other one and can be more or less relatable


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PostPosted: Mar 19, 2010 16:02 
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TheLastEscapist wrote:
Biohazard151 wrote:
Quote:
He lacks even the simplest of basic emotions and believability in his character. Chris may whine or may be boring to many. But, at least he's human. He shows clear emotions whether you like those emotions or not. He doesn't simply walk around seeing a huge monster pop out followed by him scoffing at it and making a snarky comment. Nor does he face death in the face and simply grin and make another snarky comment. Nor does he walk around pretending to be all badass and awesome and capable of doing anything without the slightest of concerns


So whats better, a boring , somewhat whiny, one track mind character who hasn't changed since the beginning or a snide, cocky, show off who laughs at the dangers he is facing?



You forgot to put that the whiny, boring and one track mind character does behave more or less like a human over the other one and can be more or less relatable


..Not really. He seems to have no changes throughout the game, he remains a static character. When he finds Jill, his one track mind stays a one track mind and shifts suddenly to Wesker for the third act. Chris in no way to myself seems relatable, human, nor any of the above.

That said, Leon isnt exactly human either, but that is why I liked him because of the two, at least he shows some fun in his mannerisms. In fact, I would argue that perhaps the only character that could truly be said to have evolved and developed quite a bit over the series is now dead. Wesker himself, even for the short amount of screen time in Re5 actually did develop as a character, while Sheva and Chris could have been said to have started as static, and remained that way throughout.

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