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PostPosted: Mar 08, 2010 17:47 
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Rodimus Prime
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Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Favorite title: Biohazard (Rebirth)
Now playing: Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
I tried solo on Professional today, all I can say is that it's fucking ridiculous!!!! I'm gonna do a pro run with a partner later today (previously did a bit of it with Cryptic Sin but I had to leave for other reasons). This can't be played with the AI.

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PostPosted: Mar 08, 2010 20:37 
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Joined: Sep 25, 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Favorite title: Biohazard Outbreak File: 2
Now playing: Resident Evil 6
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Yes it can be played with the AI and a partner is just as frustrating, trust me. I found it easier in single play than with a partner because as dumb as the AI can be, I can at least control him in many instances or force him to do or not do things and handle them myself. With a partner you often clash in heated situations on how to approach it and both try to take the lead and it ends in failure.

Regardless of anything there are three ways to beat Pro:

1) Rush and avoid all enemies as much as possible, get horrible score

2) Kill what you can in each area but don't wait for more spawns, move on. Average Score

3) Be patient and be meticulous. Take your time, kill everything little by little, don't move on until everything is dead. Keep yourself in safe zones constantly with back to a wall at all times. High Score.

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PostPosted: Mar 08, 2010 21:59 
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Rodimus Prime
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Joined: Jul 27, 2006
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Favorite title: Biohazard (Rebirth)
Now playing: Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
Well, of course... but it's a chore to play with the AI. Actually, professional in DE is a chore! :razz:

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 1:52 
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"You did a fine job."
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Joined: Jan 2, 2009
Favorite title: Biohazard 4
Now playing: P.T.
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Its near impossible to talk to you because as Archelon has already stated, its as If you decide when an opinion is valid and when it isn't. Ill try though. It seems when i state something involving consensus, you reiterate how a lone opinion is still as meaningful, and then when i state my lone opinion, you decide it is illogical...i don't get where the logic goes.

Ikari, for god sakes, again i reiterate i am not arguing what the 'point' of the scenario is, and what its point was is also an opinion mind you. The simple fact is, Dvader and I found small faults in it and discussed it, and perhaps we felt the hectic desperate rush wasn't as well done as a 10/10, but more a 8.5/10. The point doesn't mean that we necessarily love it. Its like Saying if a horror movie has horror in it, don't pick on it because the horror isnt as good as you want..which makes no sense. Yes, Desperate Escape was a tense scenario, I just found it might not have worked as planned and the rush became a little tedious and could have used some pacing just to break it up.

I'm not comparing it to the Re 4m mike section. I didn't say that, take it up with someone else. Regarding your Annette and excella comparison, you're only half right really. Look at it like this, Resident Evil 5 lacked horror...and that was a very common complaint among reviewers, fans, and pretty much the entirety of people who played it. Therefore, reviewers tallied that as a negative point...so by your logic they're idiots because they missed the point right? Resident Evi l5 was designed to be an action shooter, and it is, but by your logic tallying against it because it lacks horror is wrong. You have to realize there are opinions that can say it could have used horror. Its not that people are comparing directly saying Excella should have been Annette. No, they are saying Excella seemed to lack depth perhaps, and could have been more like Annette in the fact that she has more ( hypothetical scenario). So i don't see a point to this, It seems by your logic you can only place value on what the game attempted, and never on what it didn't.

Its not a matter of having your 'cake; and eating it too. You act as if its one or the other, and again its as if you believe you set the parameters on what the game could have done and couldn't. It seems like you would be the person to argue why having had zombies in LIN would have taken away from the 'point; of the scenario, because its about solitude and creepiness, not enemies. That kind of thinking is much too black and white Ikari, games can combine aspects ( IE. intense odds & pacing) without having to choose one or the other,its not as if one cancels the other out, which is why complaints exist, because one could potentially see a need for more of something or less compared to what was actually received.

First off, im not sure its fine for you to safely say the vast majority of people were introduced to Re4. Second that is entirely your opinion that a bond is created and thus a game cant live up to its predecessors, so again its as if you decide when an opinion means something and when it doesn't. Im a huge mass effect fan, the first game i thought was incredible, it wast he first of its kind id ever played and made a huge impact on me from the start. Mass Effect 2 came along, and i was blown away even more, because it was that good. Therefore, it seems like your making an excuse that those who don't like Re5 as much as Re4 is because they were touched by Re4. That could be true for some, but in no way can you argue all. I play games with no bias, which is why my collection and rankings are diverse in studio, genre, and title. To me Resident Evil 5 was decent, just not very good at all in any respect aside from visuals and Voice actors.

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So that already makes your 'consensus' a large group of very BIASED individuals.


You're talking as if you have a sheet which lists the exact numbers and statistics of those who hate Re5 because it didn't live up to Re4. That is entirely opinion based with no number, math, or real backing to it. Its purely your opinion and my opinion completely disagrees with it. So basically, this was a wasted sentence because it is entirely your opinion.

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Now you have these Biased individuals complaining about a sequel to their beloved game not living up to 'their' standards and expectations, completely ignoring the expectations of the series in of itself and thus the series or genre now has to evolve to meet the demands of the new audience while alienating previous fans.


And so it begins...one sentence which claims an opinion is fact creates more opinions equaling fact. Im not sure you understand the idea of a consensus. Why did i use that word, because it can be proven that there is a consensus of Luke-warm reception to the game in comparison to its genre and its predecessor. I never once stated facts, just mass opinions and reviews, now you seem to not understandhat.

Ikari, you seem to act as if you know exactly what the series 'expectations' are and what was needed. Im not sure I have ever heard someone so blatantly act that way.

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Look at FF7, ff7 fans complained and rallied so much over ff7 (which is not even THAT great of a game to begin with, a good game yes, but, still)


LoL okay...again you seem to downplay others opinions and such but decide to put your own in a manner to suggest you have the answers? Final Fantasy 7 isn't one of the greatest games ever and loved and praised so highly because of nothing, you may think so...but you're outnumbered greatly. You have all the right to stay in your own world and believe that, but when you venture into the world of humanity where the majorty does in fact rule, prepare to be pounced on. Sad, maybe, but just how life is. If i said Uncharted 2 was one of the worst games ever made...sure its an opinion...but its laughable because there again is a consensus which breeds a 'concept' the game is. Therefore, i can say that...but its not part of what the general public sees it, and therefore perhaps not true.

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The same happened with RE5. After RE4 opened up a new audience of RE fans, large expectations were involved from that audience about how RE5 should play, including petty things like Leon should be the star again etc. When these expectations weren't met, RE5 was panned by these people as being inferior.


This is a petty argument, you act as if every poster here and around hated the game because Leon wasn't in it or because the sun was too bright. You really think all the people who played it think in that way? Do you think the reviewers did? Do you think I did or dvader or the majority people here did? No...we all found very common complaints and ideas on why it wasn't as good, and commonality is useful because it often tells us the 'consensus' also agrees. I wont go through why it wasnt as good to many, because its been said and done and you already know, but your inability to grasp the importance of a consensus is a problem that i cant change and will affect an intelligent conversation.

So again, we have a 'consensus' of largely overtly biased people. Yet, I and others are to take the opinions of these BIASED individuals to heart and hear their opinions and try to understand them despite the FACT these individuals on large do not try to understand or care about the opinions of anyone else or try to understand the series in of itself and simply cater to their expectations based on RE4 and nothing more?

Well don't take it too heart then, i dot and no one should? Billy joe who gives it a 0/10 on gamefaqs because there wasn't enough explosions is not part of the consensus, and therefore getting heated about him is your own fault man. When a careless idiot strolls by and bumps into me, too get mad is futile because they lack an understand the majority does. But when people present legitimate complains, arguments, theories, and opinions, and many others share that, its ridiculous not to see a 'value' and trend in that.

And again...you think they're biased, you don't have proof, and the reviewers likely aren't all biased. In fact if anything, many complain here because Re 5 was like Re4 on steroids, and they wanted less of that and didn't like how Re4 handled somethings.

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That is exactly why 'consensus' or 'majority opinion' means little.


Wow...don't know what to say on that. Actually I do...that is a stupid comment.
The majority opinion is what life is based on Ikari, and its the only way of....well anything. In fact, there isn't anything but. Law, school, everything is based on it. Go look at the top 100 games on any site...see a pattern? You think they got there on accident? Games like OoT, Ff7, Mass effect 2, metal gear etc. are largely common on all lists because the system works Ikari..it works because aggregate scoring reveals something. You dont have to agree 100%, but very very often its there and it makes sense.


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Because even in society, 'majority opinion' relies heavily on what 'so and so' says is popular and cool, thus everyone else likes it as well. Same with opinions. Someone less knowledgeable or even less intelligent hears someone else make a comment or criticism about a game, movie, whatever, regardless of whether it is factually true or not, but, now this person goes along and states that opinion as if it was original and their own and pronounces it as a testament. This goes on and on until you have a great majority of people all spouting the same exact criticisms and opinions despite whether those criticisms have been or can be debunked or are factually incorrect.


Okay...i don't agree, but lets say its true. Where do we go from here Ikari? in other words...what is this argument based on then? the funny thing is often times i find myself retracting statements and agreeing based on others opinions because i have learned from them, or understood something i might not previously have. I don't understand what you want here....you don't agree with....a group of peoples opinions....and yet you find it perfectly suitable to pronounce your own as something more...suitable then thousands of others? I don't get it

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That's why opinions are opinions. It doesn't matter if 400 people all agree with one opinion, as long as one single person disagrees, it is still individual opinion and the weight of the 400 can't force their opinion to be factual or disprove the opinion of the one unless there is indeed factual evidence to support it being fact and not opinion.


I never said you were factually wrong man. But again, common sense is bred in a consensus, because the sensible often outweigh the ridiculous. Its why ET is not one of the top ten games of all time and OoT is. Its why when we have a chance for a consensus, we take it because it breeds an opinion that is much MORE unbiased then an individual. You are forgetting something Ikari...and that is

You are biased.
So am I.

So is everyone to an extent, we are shaped in ways and even we dont see in what ways and how we are biased sometimes because we just cant. Some are worse then others, which is why a consensus is not only meaningful, but vital. Without it we have dictatorships and bad decisions are mad, in the game world it is why the best games are ranked the best, corruption and idiots have their say sometimes, but the majority and consensus shines through and is correct.

A majority and consensus is indeed valid and holds true weight because it provides the best and most efficient manner of providing a group opinion which will in turn almost always send the sensible to the top because we are more sensible then the other species among us. Of course you hear of sickening acts of humanity when the sensible and consensus didn't shine through , like Kitty Genovese, but we live here in the west in a relatively safe world because the consensus is often sensible.

Its like if I asked you Ikari, is murder okay? And im sure at one point we as humans asked ouseleves this seeing as the majority don't murder. And our sensibility said to us...no it isn't. And we took a consensus, and the glaring majority said it isn't, with a minority saying it is. So a consensus made a decision..and i ask how you can argue with that? Sensibility cant be measured, but it still exists because we aren't killing and murdering. So If i said, well its my opinion its fine...you would lie if you said that opinion is completely valid, imagine a president who decides the majority doesnt rule and a consensus doesn't matter..it would be freaking anarchy.

i think i have made my case and honestly..im not sure its arguable in terms of logic, despite your opinion. Majority rules and does so for a reason, and a consensus has tremendous value as I outlined, too argue that is very odd indeed.

p.s. sorry this topic got a little off track, but it was impossible to reply relating solely to Resident Evil in light of the direction the discussion turned, but it still has relevance to Desperate Escaopa and some opinions on it.

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 3:26 
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Claire is there.
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Joined: Aug 25, 2008
Location: Texas
Favorite title: Biohazard 2
Now playing: Resident Evil Revelations 3DS
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I've been really annoyed with the single player AI on Desperate Escape. It seems the AI loves putting themselves in the most dangerous of situations. I run to safety, but the AI takes this as an opportunity to follow me in the sluggish of ways. Run to the left, turn to my direction, get hit by an enemy, turn to the right, turn to my direction again and finally make it to me.

Even when I tell the AI to attack, they don't do that very well. They're either too careful or are just trying to make me do all the work. I was surrounded by enemies at one point, firing at the legs of the majini's with my machine gun (trying to make most of the fall so I can run through or button command attack), and here comes Josh AI in attack mode. He runs in the middle of us all instead of using his equipped shotgun to make a path and ease my burden. He gets grabbed and I get hit. He knocks the guy down with his elbow and hits him with a shotgun shell on the ground. He turns to my direction and fires one shotgun shot before running away (and it wasn't even a good shot because I still had enemies standing). I would've asked him to cover, but he would have just equipped his handgun and began taking controlled shots in an uncontrollable situation.

I can't stand single player on anything above normal (the game above was on veteran). I either play split screen or join/host random online games.

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 5:21 
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Big Truth
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Joined: Jun 2, 2007
Location: Northants, UK
Favorite title: Biohazard 4
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I never once saw RE5 get panned within the community simply because Leon wasn't the star.

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 6:45 
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"You did a fine job."
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Joined: Sep 12, 2009
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Favorite title: Biohazard 3 Last Escape
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Finished Desperate Escape, I really enjoyed it, I thought I wouldn't like it as much as LIN, but I loved it almost the same. It's so well done, and the level design is fantastic. Very non linear, it's how RE5 should have been. :smile:

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:30 
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Favorite title: Biohazard (Rebirth)
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Ikari you need to play with a more passive teamate if you have such problems. My experiences with duo pro DE have been much better than solo.

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 17:41 
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Favorite title: Biohazard Outbreak File: 2
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I think you need to re-examine a few things here. You say I demean the opinion of a group but pronounce the opinion of the individual. In a way yes. But, here's why. Having an OPINION is fine. BUT, when you try to use "Well 30 other people agree with me thus my opinion is greater than yours and beats yours and proves me right!" to win an argument, it just doesn't work.

That's exactly why I brought up the ff7/ff8 thing. Again I say, does it make it fact that ff8 is an inferior game because a large majority think ff7 is the best game ever and hate ff8? If you and more than half the board agreed that ff7 was the best game ever and ff8 was terrible, would that make your opinion 'greater' than mine? Think about that logically because that is what you and a LOT of other people in general seem to imply, that simply because a 'consensus' agrees with something it makes your 'opinion' somehow 'greater' than others. Therein lies the problem. You can't support everyone being entitled to their opinion and make claims that opinions are just opinions yet then on top of that, try to support the ideal that the more people who agree with an opinion the more 'factual' it becomes and holds greater weight over other opinions.

That's why as I stated, opinion is subjective and individual.

You also state that my claims about re4 and ff7 fans are unfounded and no proof to back them up. There's proof EVERYWHERE. Go to the RE5 boards on gamefaqs or capcom unity, go to most Final Fantasy boards.

You'll find a GREAT number of idiots who will go on CONSTANTLY complaining about anything in current games while purporting how ff7/re4 was the best. Even on biohaze you have a good number of people who constantly go on about how re4 was so much better and re4 was groundbreaking and re4 this and re4 that. Go to capcom unity and see how many people are begging for Leon/Ada/Krauser as DLC and how many complain that Leon should have been the main hero and not Chris and how RE4 was so much better. Look at all the complaints about how RE5 ripped off RE4. There's a new topic that just popped up there the other day asking why RE5 'stole' "The Mercenaries" from RE4.

I frequent a LOT of forums and as you can tell by my long winded posts I like to read, write and discuss. So I've been around the block and have seen more than my fair share of re4/ff7 fanboyism that floods forums for other games in the series.

You also claim I can't prove that these games caused a bond. You also mistakenly went on to illustrate your point by stating that 'not all are like this' when in fact I never once did say 'all' were. I said 'majority' which would not include 'all'. A majority can be 7,000 to 5,000. The 7,000 is still the majority but there's still 5,000 that don't fit into that majority. See?

If you spend enough time on message boards and READ the stuff posted by these people and even ask them questions or participate in debate/discussion with them you'll EASILY find out that their first FF was 7 and their first RE was 4. And that they hate ff8 and hate RE5 because they weren't like 7/4.

It's a big deal to 'me' because I went through this years ago with ff8. I was a frequenter of the ff8 forum on gamefaqs and for 3 years straight I had to read nothing but constant complaints from people from the ff7 boards going on about how ff8 sucked and ff7 was better. Even to this day I cannot post on a forum saying I like ff8 without someone coming in and going on about how ff7 was better and 8 sucked.

The same thing happened with RE4/5. Once RE4 came out and introduced an entire new audience that never touched RE before this to the series like ff7 did. (A great majority of gamers today will attest FF7 was their first 'rpg') So when RE5 came out they did nothing but complain about it for not being as good as RE4 or for being a ripoff of RE4 despite every game in the series being a re-hash clone of the last prior. Yet when RE5 rehashes re4 it's a problem? Why would it be a problem to any normal RE fan who's used to the rehashing that EVERY RE game prior did with the SAME mechanics. RE2 for example is identical to level layout, pacing, and even plotline as RE1.So why would it be a problem to them unless these people are new to the series and aren't used to it and simply see RE5 doing what RE4 did and complaining?

Bare in mind I never said there was a problem with disliking RE5. If you don't like it, you don't like it and you're entitled to your opinion. But, it's unfair for a game to be panned based on bias and for people to use that bias to support their opinions by saying "well everyone else agrees with me so it must be true!". Because again I ask the same question again, does a great majority thinking ff7 rocks and ff8 sucks make it a fact that ff8 is a crappy game?

Back to the DE thing. You say why can't you have both. Ok, but, how can you have both when they're polar opposites? Think about it logically. The goal is obviously to make you feel overwhelmed and give a 'Desperate' escape. But, how can you accomplish this by pacing it with breaks in between? You can't.

You can't give that same feeling of overwhelming the player and making it feel Desperate if you just throw a group of enemies at them then suddenly 'stop' the enemies and give the player a breather before moving onto the next group of enemies. Again, that's identical to how RE5's main campaign worked already. DE was trying something different, yet you're saying it wasn't paced well. But, again, most people complained about the pacing of RE5 itself and how it was 'boring'.

That's what I meant earlier when I said that Capcom gives you something, everyone complains about it. Then capcom listens to those complaints and gives you WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. And then everyone complains AGAIN now about the new thing, and this new complaint is basically saying they think it should be like the OLD way (the one they complained about hating BEFORE). It happens EVERY time. And it's just downright mind numbing.

Don't get me wrong, you are ENTITLED to your opinion to believe it should have better pacing. I never disputed that. But that is part of debate and discussion. If you present an opinion I 'am' allowed to question the validity of that statement and debate it if I feel it conflicts with my own 'opinion' and thus we have a 'discussion' about said opinion. You seem to act like I'm coming out of left field by questioning your 'opinion', like you've never experienced that before.

Dvader's comments which you seemed to support thus why you were included in future posts by me, don't seem logical to me, and thus I questioned them and tried to explain how it wouldn't make sense to pace DE with breaks.

Now given my posts have been extremely long winded which I haven't done in awhile but I attribute that to the fact the computers been down and I've rarely been online for more than a few minutes here and there posting once or twice now and then from my storm the past month or so so my writers creativity has been itching to death and thus I'm going in overdrive when I post any messages but whatever :P

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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 19:28 
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Favorite title: Biohazard 2
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I'm not even sure how we got to this point in the thread...


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